Liz interviews Jesse Kelly to discuss his latest book, “The Anti-Communist Manifesto,” and how to properly deal with the Marxist infiltration of America. The two discuss the portrayal of Senator Joe McCarthy and the need for a more aggressive approach against communism.
He emphasizes the Soviet infiltration through cultural institutions such as schools, the media, and Hollywood, leading to a lack of patriotism and sympathy for communism among Americans like what is seen today.
Liz concludes the interview by asking Kelly how to fight communism in America. Kelly responds by advocating for revitalizing religion and family values, and emphasizing a “spiritual battle” of good versus evil as the correct way to view the political and social strife against the Left, which embraces Marxist ideology.
Next, Liz reports a Christian preacher peacefully preaching against a pride event on a sidewalk, arrested by a police officer despite exercising the right to free speech and assembly. The incident involved the man being threatened, arrested, and handcuffed, while the pride parade crowd clapped in support of the arrest. Liz highlights the law enforcement double standard, suggesting that a cop would not arrest a transgender person or drag queen at a Christian event if the situation were reversed.
Finally, Liz discusses Apple’s new product called Apple Vision Pro, an augmented reality device resembling virtual reality goggles. Liz expresses concerns about the potential negative impacts of augmented reality, arguing that it may lead to the replacement of real-life experiences and human interactions. She also reads a tweet from former Apple employee, who describes the extensive research and development behind the Apple Vision Pro, including the ability to predict user actions and manipulate their cognitive state.
Liz warns about the potential misuse of augmented reality technology for nefarious purposes, particularly by those with ideological biases or anti-human sentiments. She highlights the negative impacts of technology, including increased isolation and mental health issues, citing examples such as COVID-19 lockdowns and the harmful influence of social media platforms.
This transcript was generated automatically and may contain typos, mistakes, and/or incomplete information.
Unless these demons are stopped, they will kill all and destroy all the way they always have been. That is the essence of anti-communism. Being an anti-communist is not passive. It is not laissez fair. It is not live and let live because you cannot live and let live with demons who want to take everything and destroy everything.
That is Jesse Kelly, and that’s a pretty heavy comment that he makes. Demons don’t have a wake up call. There is no bottom to the evil that demons are trying to perpetuate in our country right now. Jesse Kelly says that Senator Joe McCarthy, famous for trying to route communists out of our government and out of our nation. Jesse Kelly says, Senator Joe McCarthy didn’t go far enough in his quest against communists, and that communists have infiltrated our country and infiltrated our institutions and subverted our culture to this very day. Now, the interesting thing, one of my favorite things about Jesse Kelly is he comes off as a joker. He is quite a funny guy. I enjoy him, but he’s actually not a joker. He’s actually, what I call him a closet intellectual. He has thought deeply about this crisis moment that we are facing in this country. He presents this picture that the world is on fire, that our country is on the brink.
And he is not saying that to be bombastic. He’s saying that because he has studied the history of how communists subvert a society, and he sees that happening in our country. He sees that we are right on the brink. So we have today an argument about the prescription. He and I are very like-minded in our diagnosis of this problem, right? I always call it Marxism. He calls it communism, but it’s the same thing. Marxism is communism. Communism is Marxism. And we argue about not the diagnosis of the problem, but the prescription. What do we do in our country once we’ve properly diagnosed our political enemy? Once we’ve acknowledged the reality of this political enemy? What do we do to act as Jesse Kelly calls it as anti-communist? That’s coming up shortly. We’re also gonna talk about Apple’s new so-called augmented reality program, or product, their vision pro.
This is a super dangerous product. This is not cool. This is not technology technological advancements that we should celebrate. This is a very, very slippery slope for our nation. Our nation, which is already struggling with grasping basic reality. Like what is a man and what is a woman? Apple’s Vision Pro invites us to further escape reality. But the one of the one of the engineers that worked on this product talks about some of the features that went into this so-called augmented reality. These features, which to me just spell manipulation, the ability of this product, although this product isn’t a sentient being, so it means the sentient beings that write the code on this product, that operate the AI that operates this product, those individuals have the capacity through this product to manipulate us, in fact, to shape not just individual people and the way that we think and the way that we behave and the way that we interface with each other, but the ability to shape our entire society differently than the way it’s shaped right now. And to what end, what’s the ramification of, of taking people who are living in reality and moving them further away from reality, disassociating them with reality? Haven’t we already seen in our country the consequences of not just the Covid lockdowns, which isolated people further from each other, but of social media and of an online generation? Haven’t we seen the human cost that Apple’s perpetuating with this product? We’re gonna talk about all this and more, so let’s get to it.
Okay? So I’m reading a very interesting book right now that I wanna talk about with you guys. if you haven’t gotten it already, highly recommend that you do. It’s called the Anti-Communist Manifesto. It’s really good. You know, we talk all the time on the show about recognizing and acknowledging the reality of the political enemy that we face. If we don’t recognize this reality, then we’re not gonna fight well against this enemy, and we’re going to lose. I don’t want to lose. You don’t want to lose. Highly recommend this book. And I have a really interesting question that I wanna ask for the author of this book based on my reading. So I thought we would bring him on. The author is of course, Jesse Kelly. Jesse, congrats on your book.
Oh, well, I’m world famous now, Liz, I I don’t know if I have to delete all the numbers in my phone, but now that I’m a very prestigious author, I feel like a different person now.
Yeah, and if you, if you don’t believe you, just, just ask the guys that wrote the blurbs on the back of your book. Look what we have here. This is the endorsements on the back of your book. It says, praise for the Anti-Communist Manifesto, a literary tour de force, a magnum opus for all the ages. Jesse Kelly Radio host. And the most important book of this are any generation Jesse Kelly, television host. So your modesty is charming. It’s going to, it’s a really a saleable quality here. I actually, one of the things I like the best about you, Jesse, I know we joke a lot. you’re kind, you portray yourself as a joker, but you’re actually not. You’re actually a, what I would call a closet intellectual. And for that reason, my question is not your typical book interview question. I actually do have, I was reading this, I was reading this today, right before the show, and you talk a little bit about Senator Joe McCarthy and his hunt for communists. And my question to you is Senator Joe McCarthy portrayed by, by popular culture in our history books, even in an unfair manner in his hunt for communists?
Yes. And that’s on purpose. That’s why he’s portrayed in an unfair manner, because he hunted for communists. And the truth is, Joe McCarthy’s one of these things, he’s so universally reviled. Everyone’s heard the term. This is McCarthyism or Neil McCarthyism where Joe McCarthy failed, was, he didn’t go near far enough, not near far enough, but we, we struggled in America keeping the communists out when the Soviet Union was trying to penetrate because of our freedoms. And the Soviets would talk about this, how we were so free that we made infiltration easy. But the truth is, you have to be aggressive with these people. You must be aggressive, and you must be aggressive all the time because they’re aggressive. There’s no live. And that live your way outta communism. You can’t live and let live them outta your schools or your company or your country. You have to be an aggressive anti-communist. And honestly, what they did was it was tiny compared to what they should have done to save America from where we are now. And look, I write about it in the book where we were then. And the things they were doing then led directly to where we are now. We weren’t aggressive enough then. Now we have a lot of work to do.
I love that. Now, you’re one of those people that can say, and I wrote about this more in the book, that’s like, that’s a feather in your cap right there. So what should, and in all seriousness, what should they have done? When you say they should have gone further, what should is further?
Well, we stress, we, we struggle with this. We’ve always struggled with this in America. Liz, from our very beginning, before communism even got here, we struggled with what is, what is nice, what is right? What is Christian, what is not Christian? We wrestled with this mightily during the Native Americans. They’re in the Indians. What do we do with the Indians? People act like now America, we just genocided em and didn’t care. That’s not true. It was hugely controversial at the time. What do we do? How do we do it the right way? We want the land. We want to treat people, right? We struggled with this with the communists too, where we would have these show trials in the McCarthy era. We would’ve these show trials and you’d have to come try to defend yourself. But America, because we wanted a justice system that was fair and everything was equal and everything was good to go, we didn’t actually punish that many of them at all.
It should have been arrests. And if I even smell communism on you, you are going to prison. You are being deported. You are, you are having something done that will wake up the other communists. That this is not a country where this is tolerated. But we try to do it the American way. And I don’t mean that complimentary like I normally do. We try to do it the nice way and the right way. Well, I mean, I guess if we find somebody who’s really bad, then maybe we can do something there. But okay, he’s just a college professor teaching his kids about communism. I guess that’s not the end of the world. After all, we’re the land of the free. And now we have a country that all of our cultural institutions are seized by Marxist trying to burn it down. And we wanna know why that happened. It happened because we tried to pussyfoot our way around getting them out when we could have gotten them out easily. Now we’re stuck.
I, I feel like this is almost lost knowledge and perhaps it’s lost because it was intentionally buried. But for all intents and purposes, it’s not something that a lot of people even in the Republican party think about or in the conservative movement know about. One of the things that’s kind of eerie in your book is you talk about how high up in our government, communists infiltrated, and I’m not talking about communist ideology, that tinged, you know, the d o d training manuals. I’m talking about actual individuals who are part of, of the Communist Party. Talk to me about that.
Well, if people, if people knew history, if they taught history in schools, Liz, I wouldn’t have had to write it in the book because it’s true. And people don’t realize it. How purposeful the Soviets were about it. Now, the Soviets, as everyone knows, are gone. Most of the communism in America today is taught by Americans to other Americans. And it’s taught by the Chinese to other Americans. But the Soviets early on, they were the ones who knew, the Soviets knew very early on, they couldn’t compete with this economically, therefore they wouldn’t be able to keep up with this militarily. But they thought that they could subvert us. 85% of what the KGB did was not cloak and dagger spy stuff with a shoe that doubles as a phone. 85% of what the KGB did was demoralizing. A society infiltrating its schools, its media and things like that.
And that’s what they did to us here. They wormed their way into the schools, wormed their way into the media and began to worm their way through the university system, the government and Hollywood to make sure that Americans didn’t like America, or in the very least, didn’t care about America. That’s just as good for the communists. And we kind of had sympathy for the communists and the communist. Cause we had Hollywood movies being produced when the Communis were fighting the Nazis in World War ii, which honestly could you get worse sides on both sides, just let all of ’em die. But we had Hollywood producing movies praising Stalin in the Soviet Union during this time. This was all done purposely. And look, they were very successful, sadly. Let’s be honest.
Okay, so one of the, one of the ways that you and I think about things differently, I think we actually are we diagnose the problem the same. We, you and I sit here and we say, you know, I usually call it Marxism, that we are infiltrated by Marxist, you say infiltrated by communists, it’s potato, pet potato. It’s the same thing. It’s just a different brand or a different a different tactical element of, of the same ideology. But our prescription for what we should do about this in our country in order to save our country is slightly different. And I wanna, I wanna hear yours. I mean, you identify as an anti-communist. Can you define that for me? What does that mean? Not just in the sense that you oppose the ideology itself. That’s obvious, but what does that mean practically?
Okay, one, I actually doubt we’re different. I’ll discuss that in just a moment. Let me filibuster for a minute list. First of all anti-communism. I’m not a conservative. I’m not a libertarian or a nationalist. I am an anti-communist. And here’s what that means. I understand that there are divisions on the right between what this should be and what that should be, what this issue should be. None of those divisions matter even that much unless the communists are stopped first. When I see the various factions on the right arguing, now I actually laugh at, at how naive these people are. You’re standing in the living room arguing over what color to paint the walls while a murderous gang is kicking your front door, getting ready to murder. Everyone who gives a crap about the paint color on the walls until they’re stopped, you stop them first.
Then we can argue till the cows come home about what color the walls need to be. Anti-communism is the only thing that matters. Because unless these demons are stopped, they will kill all and destroy all the way they always have been. That is the essence of anti-communism. Being an anti-communist is not passive. It is not laissez fair. It is not live and let live because you cannot live and let live with demons who want to take everything and destroy everything. It must be much more offensive and aggressive than it ever has been. In order to have these people flee from your shores, that is the goal, flee from your shores. You cannot talk them around them out of it. You, you cannot convince them. These are people who are religious zealots. They only understand fear and pain. So we will either visit that on them and win, or we will try to be nice. She nice about it, and we will get our teeth kicked in the way we always have.
I think. So first of all, you’re correct in that we view some things very similar. I agree that conservatives and Republicans cannot be passive. We have to actually be aggressive. We have to be savage. We have to go on we have to play offense here. We also can’t embrace a live and let live attitude. We know libertarianism as, as much as I think we want libertarianism to be a thing. It’s just not a thing. It’s antithetical to human nature here. But the area that I would challenge you on, and I’m interested in your response to this, the area that I would challenge you on is I don’t believe that we can simply decimate a communist ideology simply by destroying that ideology. It has to be replaced. I don’t believe in a neutral playing field. I don’t believe to use a military metaphor here, and I just, for my audience’s benefit, I do this with Jesse.
This is how you really get an argument to him, is using a military metaphor. You don’t, you don’t defeat an enemy on the battlefield just by decimating them from, from the spot where you are. You go and you, you take over that spot. And so that’s where I wonder what your prescription, how do you apply an anti-communist? You know, don’t be, don’t be too nice. Don’t be too goody goody. Don’t be too polite. Destroy this ideology. How do you replace that ideology with one of our own? If you’re not doing that at the same like, as part of your strategy to defeat it in the first place,
Well, just as I suspected, Liz, we’re actually a hundred percent on the same page. You just didn’t think we were. How do you, what’s true anti-communism? Get married, make babies, go to church and start a family. That’s true anti-communism. That is why they have assaulted the church. That’s why they have assaulted the family. Because you must destroy the church in the family unit if you’re going to replace that religion with a brand new religion. That is just the bottom line. Unless America, look, I talk about a lot of very practical steps in this book in dealing with the LGBTQ demon mob and the BLM civil rights crap and the climate change netters and corporate communism. Yeah, I address ways we do need to deal with all that. But none of that matters unless America realizes we are up against a religion.
A nation will have a religion, period. I don’t care what you believe, it’s not my business. But a nation will have a religion and you better pick one and it’s going to be theirs, or you are gonna pick a different one. And so we have chosen one now. We’re now the US of gay. That’s what we are. Will you be a Christian nation? We’re not anymore. Don’t argue with me about that. I see the flags that fly at the embassies. I see what’s taught in the schools. I see what’s in Hollywood. The religion of your nation is reflected in your culture everywhere you go, go down to the mall, right here in Texas. You won’t see a single cross in the windows of the stores. See plenty of rainbow flags. We’re now the us of gay. We are communist country, a cultural Marxist nation. We will remove them and replace it with a new one or we will fail. And it’s that simple.
Do you see our counterrevolution, because what’s happened in the last, almost a hundred years now in our country, is certainly a Marxist communist revolution. Do you see our anti-communist revolution as primarily a cultural battle or primarily a governmental battle, a political battle or what combination?
It’s a spiritual battle. You can call it cultural if you want. And, and again, I’m nobody’s pastor, nor am I qualified to be. So it’s not my business, but we’re dealing with evil. And that is what people are missing. We can call it cultural or economic or government, but we’re dealing with evil. And this is what I mean. We have convinced ourselves on the right for so long that we’re dealing with bad, that we’re dealing with bad people. But here’s the mistake in that, when you think you’re dealing with bad, bad stops, or it might at least might stop. If I’m a bank robber, Liz and I wake up one day, there’s a, there’s a chance that I’m gonna wake up one day and I don’t wanna rob banks anymore. It doesn’t feel right. I’m taking these people’s money. I might go to jail. Maybe I’ll, maybe I’ll turn my life around.
But if I’m not a bank robber, if I’m a demonn, I never wake up one day and say to myself, you know, gosh, I think I’ve destroyed enough. Satan, what do you think? If we, if we’ve gone too far, I think it went too far with the kids. We should back off now. Right? Demons don’t have that conversation. That’s why it went from gay rights yesterday to today. They’re cutting off the breasts of 13 year old girls. And I’ll tell people something else, that’s not the end either. People on the right still are convinced they’re dealing with bad and that these people will stop the tranny stuff. Me, yesterday’s news, five years from now when they’ve moved on to kids and dogs, and I’m not joking about that. Demons don’t stop. Demons go down and down and down. Evil doesn’t stop until good stops it. We have convinced ourselves on the right that we’re dealing with bad. And until we acknowledge we’re dealing with evil, we’re dealing with demons, we will lose and have lost over and over and over again.
Yeah. You know, I think you might be right. We do actually agree on just about everything that’s maybe that, maybe that’s one of this interview is disproving my, my position that we don’t agree on everything. So let me ask you this question about the book specifically. Again, if you guys haven’t read this, it’s a great book. It’s really, really well done. And I don’t say that, you know, I’m, I read a lot, but I’m also a picky reader. so I don’t endorse just every book that I read. What was the most interesting or shocking thing that you didn’t expect to find in the course of researching this book that you found?
I, you know, I’m a history freak, Liz, I know you like that stuff too. And I really wanted to tie in cuz people get confused when you talk about communism or Marxism. Those are interchangeable terms in where we’re at today. Cuz they don’t see, okay, Soviets, how does that tie into gay stuff? I don’t understand. So I wanted to tie the history of all those, all the separate stuff, the climate change stuff, everything into historical examples and going into what I thought to myself, there are, I knew of, I knew of some already, but surely there are for all of these, right? But what if there aren’t? What if I’ve got a stretch? What if I’ve just gotta eliminate something? Oh, no, no, no. There’s a direct link between all the, a shocking direct link that we walk you through in the book. Antifa, that’s German that was under the Weymar Republic. The communists had Antifa called Antifa with the same symbol. It’s all you’re dealing with the same communists you’ve always dealt with just with different labels. Now
That is actually kind of shocking. I mean, I think a lot of people think, oh, these are upper middle class rich white boys who are, you know, just mal intense. They’re just losers and they put on these black garb to make themselves feel cool. That’s, that’s crazy. Alright, Jesse, I appreciate it. Keep, keep fighting the fight. And guys, go to Amazon or wherever you get your books. It’s better actually to buy these books at a small book seller. It’s better for authors. It’s better for the best seller list. it’s better, you know, not to purchase things from Jeff Bezos, if possible, the Anti-Communist Manifesto by Jesse Kelly. And if you don’t believe me that it’s a good book, you can just turn the book around. And Jesse Kelly endorses it twice himself right here. So I think you can also go to Jesse Kelly book. Jesse, you can correct me if that’s wrong, but Jesse Kelly book.com if you wanna purchase it directly from the man himself. Thank you for being here. I really appreciate it.
Thank you, Liz. Yeah, Jesse Kelly book.com has all the links and if you wanna sign copy, it’s there. Or the book tour stuff is there. Jesse Kelly book dot com’s, the easiest one.
All right, there you go. Jesse Kelly book.com. Ignore everything I said about Amazon and go to Jesse Kelly book. Thanks, Jesse. Have a good one.
All right, if you haven’t already gotten his book, the Anti-Communist Manifesto, I’m his friend. I have to hawk it for him. I have to try to sell as many copies as possible. And it’s not just because I’m his friend, it’s also because it’s a really good book. It truly is. I think you’ll enjoy it. The Anti-Communist Manifesto available at jessekellybook.com. You know what would be a really interesting analysis too, a really interesting analysis. I think a lot of us agree about the cultural aspect of this battle against what I usually call Marxism. What Jesse calls communism. We agree that we have to first order our personal lives, then we have to order our communities. Of course, we have to order our spiritual lives and we have to order our government. And sometimes ordering our government is something that comes last on the priority list when we’re talking about the social issues or the culture wars.
But I would argue that it’s a combination of both that yes, we have to get our spiritual house in order and our personal lives in order, and therefore our communities organized. But what’s one thing that conservatives have forgotten to do or has something that has become misunderstood in the minds of conservatives is what limited government means. Limited government means that we don’t have a king, we don’t have a ruler, we don’t have a dictator, we don’t have a welfare state. We don’t have socialism and communism. But limited government doesn’t mean that conservatives can’t use the just authority that government officials have in certain scenarios to push forward our political agenda. Our political agenda being, as Jesse calls it, anti-communism or as I call it, based conservatism. In fact, conservatives often fall prey to the Left claiming that anytime we use the government for something, especially something that’s related to the culture war or to a social issue, the Left says, oh, that person’s a fascist.
That person’s a dictator. That person’s trying to subvert democracy. Because I suppose the insinuation here is that it’s not going to popular vote. It’s not a referendum. So if a chief executive, a governor of a state, for example, or the president of the United States does something that’s not popular referendum, and it’s related to a moral issue that that makes that politician, that governor or that president a fascist, it’s obviously not the case. Fascism is not the end of conservatism. Fascism is the end of communism. but one thing conservatives need to remember is that it is a hybrid battle between fighting the culture. The battles over culture don’t just happen in the culture, they also happen in the government. And our country is facing this moment right now. I have a video I wanna show you. It’s, it’s pretty crazy. This is, there was a pride event that was going on and a couple of Christian preachers stopped by this pride event and they were preaching an anti pride message. Now, they weren’t preaching, I’m not saying that they were preaching in a way that I would preach at an event like this. That’s neither here nor there. But what happened is police, even though these protestors were were staying on the sidewalk, they were peacefully exercising their first amendment right to free speech and peaceable assembly. A police officer arrested a Christian pastor just for preaching at a pride event. Take a look at this.
It was a wonderful providence of God. I was driving with my family down the road and we passed this, met some faithful brothers over here that are standing. I came out and got to preach for about 12 minutes before a cop got in my face, laid hands on me and threatened to arrest me if I didn’t stop. Of course, I don’t have my GoPro camera with me cuz I wasn’t coming out, had no idea this was happening. I just happened to drive by it. But these cops over here, these guys are tyrant. That man threatened me, laid hands on me. But by the grace of God, I could preach for about 10 minutes or so, like I said before, he did that. So the gospel went out, the law went out, the gospel went out. God’s gonna do work with it. He’s apparently a professing Christian too. That’s the horrible thing about this. Looks like some more men just showed up to support us. This cop’s gonna
Give a hard time. It’s public to say, don’t care
Right now. The cop is dialoguing with the pastor and the pastor’s saying, this is public property. And the cop is saying, I don’t care. The cop is saying, well, let them have their day. And the cops are saying, let them have their day, respect it. Now the cops walking away like, look at this protestor is not agitating at all. You might not agree with the way. Oh, and they’re the cop goes and just arrest him on
For saying God is not the author. Do, do the sentence wasn’t even finished,
Need you to go to eight.
And I was putting ’em in handcuffs.
And people are clapping at. People at the pride parade are clapping because the cop is handcuffing this Christian protest. Believe I’m watching. Think about the situation in reverse for a second. If this situation were reversed, do you think a cop would ever arrest
A transgender person, a drag queen if they were standing on the sidewalk across the street from an outdoor Christian revival? God bless your brother, that would never happen. It would be national media coverage. There would be outrage. The cop would be fired. This is what’s happening in our nation. And the underpinning of this, I will, I will say this, the entirety of the month, formerly known as June, that’s now known as Pride month. This is what we’re facing. This is about the underpinning of pride. Month is not about tolerance. It’s not about equality. The underpinning of pride month is queer theory. What is queer theory? Queer theory is Marxism queer theory attempts to pit two groups of people against each other. One as the oppressor and one as the oppressed. This is the classic Marxist dialectic. And the oppressed are supposed to be the marginalized, or supposed to be L G B T qia A people.
The oppressors are supposed to be, well, you guessed it, people just like this pastor, a presumably straight white Christian, American man. And you see it play out. This is happening in our neighborhoods. This wasn’t, this wasn’t even in downtown LA at the Pride Festival or, or or somewhere where a Christian ought not to be where a Christian was, was entering a venue where he knew something was happening that he didn’t agree with. Not that there’s anything wrong with doing that. I’m just saying this was like the opposite of being an agitator, the opposite of being an agitator. This is what’s happening in our nation, my friends. We have to fight this battle in every way that we can. We have to fight it in our own lives, spiritually, culturally, in our communities. And we have to use the power of government to fight back against it.
Apple announced a new product. This is one of the, this is a product. They haven’t announced a new product, and I can’t even tell you how long, what was it, 2015 since they had a new product in the market and they’ve announced their Apple Vision Pro. Their Apple Vision Pro is, it’s like those dorky virtual reality goggles, except they don’t call it virtual reality. I would argue it’s a step worse than virtual reality. It’s what they’re calling augmented reality. Because virtual reality might sit on your couch and you might play a video game through your virtual reality goggles, but you don’t live your life with virtual reality on you sit down and have a virtual reality experience. Maybe it’s still weird to do that, but this is about a million times worse. Augmented reality is you live your life with this, these goggles on, and your technology and your computer and apple become hybrid with actual reality.
So this is the video that Apple released announcing this project or this product. Tim Cook posted this on his Twitter account. You can take a look at exactly what they mean when they say this augments your reality with technology. Watch this. I’ll narrate just a little bit of what’s going on. So this, because it doesn’t have audio. So anybody who’s listening might wanna know what’s happening. So he is like looking to the side, wearing these augmented reality goggles and basically his phone screen, the interface of what your, your device would look like, pops up right in front of him and he just pinches his fingers in front of him. And it operates this interface that’s not actually on a screen. Your entire, when I say reality here, I guess I’m using the term loosely, but your entire reality becomes a computer screen. So in this, in this instance, this woman’s folding clothes on her bed and she’s FaceTiming with someone wearing these goggles.
this guy’s not really typing but pretending to type on a keyboard because his screens are just through the goggles. They appear that they’re full room screens. And this one, this is maybe the creepiest one, yet this woman’s on a plane and she doesn’t wanna be on a plane. So what does she do? She twists the some lever on her augmented reality goggles and it changes the entirety of where she is. So now she’s surrounded with this false reality. She’s surrounded with this fiction. Same with this guy. He’s surrounded by a city because he doesn’t want to be in the reality where he is Now, you can, you can watch this video and you can think, oh wow, that’s kind of cool. That’s a neat innovation. That’s, you know, the next step we knew that we were gonna integrate technology with, with reality.
I would argue that this is something that our society should be very, very wary of, very wary for several reasons here. First of all, this cute and kitchy video with this upbeat music, this adventurous, oh, isn’t this so cute? Music is not the reality of what it would be like for people to use these augmented reality goggles. And the first observation is, you’ll notice in most of those videos, people are surrounded by other people. So someone on a plane, it was someone in, it was someone with their friends, it was someone with their family that’s not who will be using these goggles. The people that will be using these goggles will be using them all alone and they won’t be using it to quote unquote augment a fully, what word is even appropriate here, A fully fulfilling reality.
It’s not something that’s going to be used in addition to a well-ordered life, a well-ordered existence. This is going to be used to replace reality. This augmented reality will become artificial reality and will replace what people should be doing, which is not interfacing with a virtual computer screen, but interfacing with other human beings, interfacing with actual nature and going on actual adventures and seeing actual cities and enriching their lives in reality and not via a pair of very dorky, very ugly goggles that no one’s going to want to wear. Anyway, let me read you, let me read you a little bit. It is actually a long form tweet. It’s not even an article, although it’s almost as long as an article. It’s written by a guy named Sterling Crispin who says I spent 10% of my life contributing to the development of this Vision Pro while I worked at Apple as a neurotechnology prototyping researcher in the technology development group.
And I find this so fascinating. I read the whole thing, I’m just gonna read excerpts to you now, but he talks about what kind of research and what kind of capacity, and when I say capacity, I mean power, what kind of power this piece of technology actually has over you. And it’s really, really creepy. He said, it’s the longest I’ve ever worked on a single effort. I’m proud and relieved that it’s finally announced. I’ve been working on augmented reality and virtual reality for 10 years. And in many ways this, the Apple Vision Pro is the culmination of the whole industry into a single product. Then he said, the work I did supported the foundational development of vision pro, the mindfulness experiences, and also more ambitious moonshot research with neurotechnology. Now, spoiler alert, that’s where it gets pretty creepy. He said, like predicting that you’ll click on something before you do basically Mindreading.
I was there for three and a half years and left at the end of 2021. So I’m excited to experience how the last two years have brought everything together, blah, blah, blah. He said specifically, I’m proud of contributing to the initial vision, strategy and direction of this program. let me read you what else he said. Where was this other, oh, this part. He said, generally as a whole, a lot of the work I did involved detecting the mental state of users based on data from their own body and brain when they were in immersive experiences. So a user is in a mixed reality or virtual reality experience. And AI models are trying to predict if you’re feeling curious, mind wandering scared, paying attention, remembering a past experience or some other cognitive state. And these may be inferred through measurements like eye tracking, electrical activity in the brain, heartbeats and rhythms, muscle activity, blood density in the brain, blood pressure, skin conductance, et cetera.
There were a lot of tricks involved. He said to make specific predictions possible, which the handful of patents I’m named on, go into detail about one of the coolest results involved. Predicting a user was going to click on something before they actually did. He said that was a ton of work, something I’m proud of. Your pupil reacts before you click in part because you expect something will happen after you click. So you can create biofeedback with a user’s brain by monitoring their I behavior and redesigning the UI in real time to create more of this anticipatory pupil response. Other tricks to infer cognitive state involve quickly flashing visuals or sounds to a user in ways they may not perceive and then measuring their reaction to it. So I don’t know about you, but I read this and that video that Tim Cook posted on his Twitter suddenly becomes real creepy, real creepy.
So they intend to control you by flashing you visuals that you may not perceive. Let’s talk about this for a second. Where might this go wrong? What might be something that could be done in a nefarious way with this kind of well manipulation? Oh, and there’s the word. We’re looking for manipulation. So if Apple or anybody now is going to be able to deconstruct this product and build it up, so maybe it’s Facebook, maybe it’s someone else who knows whoever is in charge of writing this code. Because let’s remember, AI is not some autonomous thing. AI is programmed by people and chat. G p D is a perfect example of the bias that can and is programmed into these AI models. So whoever is writing these and creating these in Silicon Valley, oh, maybe they’re just a little leftist, maybe they’ll be captured just a little bit by, I don’t know, Marxist ideology.
And suddenly they have the capacity to flash you signals that your brain interprets without you cognitively being aware of it. They’re obviously going to use that to manipulate you. Somebody is going to use that to manipulate you. Somebody in addition to that, and let’s see how this could be done. So he said that they want to anticipate what you will click on. They anticipate it because signals change in your body because when you go to click on something, your body anticipates a change and thus your body is almost pre reacting to the change that you anticipate happening. So if your device becomes so good at predicting what they think you might do that you get so used to it predicting that it seems like where do I start and where does this prediction end? What do you think’s going to happen? Well, they’re going to manipulate you by quote unquote anticipating what they think you might do.
But actually it’s not what they think you might do, it’s what they want you to do. But you’ll be so used to it. Will you even notice? Will you even notice if they guide you towards what they want you to do versus what they think you might do? This product does not delight me. As you can see, this product is not something I’m excited about. This product is not something that’s going to be used by by stable, well-adjusted, socially competent individuals. This product’s going to be used by people who probably already have issues, whether that’s health issues like anxiety and depression, whether they have social issues, whether these people are single and alone, whether they’re lonely and they’re looking for human connection, but instead they turn to technology. One question that we should ask as a society before we even begin to accept something like this, and I will make the argument in a moment that we should not only not accept it, we should actively reject it.
Who wants you to escape reality? Augmented reality is a euphemism for escaping what it is that we are given as human beings living on this earth. We are already given a reality. We are given a sense of touch. I can reach out and touch this desk in front of me. You are listening to me. You can hear me. We are communicating together. I am communicating ideas. You are communicating feedback. We can, we can see each other. We can, we can we can understand what’s hot and cold. We can love. We can feel joy and pain. We already have a reality. We can understand beauty. We can understand corruption. All of these things. We can taste wonderful food and, and we can, we can experience things that get embedded into our brain and our consciousness that help form us into what we are. We have a reality.
So who wants us to escape this wonderful, beautiful, complicated reality in which we already exist? Well, the people that want us to escape this reality are of course people who are anti-human people who actually at their core understand that human beings, and I know this is gonna be a turnoff to some tech people watching this, but again, we’re talking about reality here. So I’m going to speak reality. The reality that we’re living is the reality that God created, the reality that we’re living in, and that we are living in God’s reality. So who wants us to escape that? People that reject God, people that reject the reality. And maybe this is a, maybe this isn’t even reality when it comes to the physical aspect, the supernatural aspect of the reality that we’re living in. Maybe it’s the political reality. Maybe maybe maybe someone wants to reject the the free market economy that we have or our constitutional republic.
Maybe it, maybe it’s these, these narrowly defined realities as well. Someone wants us to escape them. But if you want to escape this, if someone wants you to escape it, it’s because they want you to think that there’s something better, which means that they think that the reality in which we exist is bad. So we should be awfully careful about rejecting the reality in which we exist unless we can put our fingers on, maybe it’s a political reality that actually is bad, that needs to be rejected. But if we don’t step back and philosophically analyze why we want to escape reality, then we are in danger of just entering this twilight zone that’s going to be used as a way to manipulate us. we should also answer the question, okay, if we’re talking about being fully more fully immersive in technology, what has been the impact of technology on our lives?
Has this bettered us as individuals? And you can look at, at, at covid 19. Let’s look at this. This is the best, most obvious example of the impact of isolation, meaning withdrawing from reality and immersing yourself in a quote unquote virtual reality. What happened when people were isolated, when they were locked down, when they turned to TikTok instead of, instead of human interaction, we had suicide rates skyrocket. We had anxiety skyrocket, we had depression skyrocket. We have a mental health crisis in our nation, begot of our government and our public health officials dehumanizing us, telling us to view everyone else not as people, but as pathogens telling us that the highest thing that we could do, the highest moral order is to cut ourselves off from reality and to hide ourselves away. And what happened is a tremendous, tremendous mental health crisis. People killing themselves over this.
At the same time, social media. Social media has been a around a lot longer than the covid, the Covid pandemic. Obviously it, I think the usage of social media grew exponentially since Covid, especially TikTok. But you can look at, you can look at Facebook, you can look at Instagram, you can look at any of these, any of these, I particularly, I think Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok are the best examples of how destructive social media is to young people’s mental health. Young girls, when they’re look, when they’re, when they’re scrolling on Instagram, it’s proved to damage their body image. It’s proved to influence them not just on politics, but on things like the transgender ideology, things that on ideology that leads them to reject who they are innately the reality of who they are and turn them instead towards destructive surgeries and neo marks ideology.
And yet now Apple’s presenting something to us that can be used for manipulation. And one of the designers of this product actually details exactly how that manipulation could be done. At the same time, it’s taking us away from a reality that we really shouldn’t be taken away from. We really shouldn’t reject reality once upon a time that people who rejected reality were those that were people that we ended up putting in mental institutions. People who rejected reality, who detached themselves from from the world around them and from their existence were rightly labeled as mentally deranged, as psychotic. And now we’re encouraging this in people and we think that it’s gonna turn out well based on what, based on the fact that even social media, which is just a tiny fraction of what this augmented reality is, this social media has destroyed the youngest generation of our children.
The human cost of a product like this should not just, should not just put up a red flag and cause us to be wary of this. It should cause us to reject it and to be able to articulate why I will never use this product. And you shouldn’t either. But what you should do is you sign up for my email newsletter so you can see information like this in your inbox every day. Everything you need to know that big tech might censor that. Maybe if you’re using augmented reality, they won’t even want you to know about. Go to liz wheeler.com/email, drop me your email so that you can get on my new email newsletter. Thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. I’m Liz Wheeler. This is the Liz Wheeler Show.