Why These Fake Republicans in Wyoming’s Legislature Vote With Democrats

Welcome to the Liz Wheeler Show. Here’s a question for you. Why is it that Florida is the only state that is governing in a based way? And by based, I mean based in reality, like true conservatism? Why is it that Republicans hold the governorship and a majority in the State House of 22 different states across the country, and yet Florida’s the only state that’s governing like they have a Republican majority? This makes absolutely no sense to me. We should be seeing if we have, if republicans have the governor’s mansions and majorities in the state legislatures in 22 states, then we should be seeing 22 states that are governing the way that DeSantis and Republicans are governing in Florida. And yet we don’t see that, do we? We don’t see that at all. In fact, we see states like Wyoming, states, like South Carolina, even with these Republican majorities, they are rejecting Republican policy items like school choice in Wyoming. 

What is going on here? What is happening? We have a very interesting guest who is going to join us today, who is fighting back against this, maybe it’s Milk toast Republicanism, maybe it’s just establishment republicanism in state houses and showing us he’s actually prepared a playbook for how states all states across the country can govern the way that Florida is governing using what he’s calling a State Freedom caucus network. He was inspired of course, by the Congressional Freedom Caucus, the House Freedom Caucus at the federal level and their fights, specifically their fights against the establishment Republicans during the election of Speaker of the House, Kevin McCarthy. I think you’re really gonna enjoy this conversation, really feel energized by a solution to the problems that we have in ostensibly Republican states that are not acting like red states. So let’s get to it. All right, with me now is Andrew Roth. He’s the president of the State Freedom Caucus Network. Andrew, thanks for being on the show. I’m so excited to talk to you. I have about a thousand questions for you. Yeah, 

Thanks for having me, Liz. 

Okay. You guys are doing really cool stuff. I know that everyone listening and watching this show is gonna be really excited about this cuz one of the things we talked about a lot after the 2022 midterms, which we didn’t technically lose, but we lost based on what our expectation was for this red tsunami that never happened. As we talked about what it actually means to compete, what it actually means to match the Left’s apparatus, whether that’s ballot harvesting or targeted voter, get out the vote efforts, if you wanna call them that, and how the re le or the right doesn’t really have a counterpart to that we’re not competing using the strategies that the Left is using to win during these elections. So you are actually starting to compete. Tell me about this State Freedom Caucus network. How did you come up with this idea? What are you guys doing? 

Yeah, so I’ve been on Capitol Hill for close to, well, more than 20 years now, and I was around when the House Freedom Caucus launched in on, in the House of Representatives in DC and you immediately saw their impact, right? right out of the gate, Mark Meadows filed a a motion to vacate the chair, which eventually led to Speaker John Bayner getting resigning, which is a fantastic victory. And then immediately following that, they challenged a very popular Republican president on Obamacare repeal. And it got so contentious that President Trump, like mean, tweeted at the House Freedom Caucus. And you thought at the moment that that was the end of the House Freedom Caucus and their careers. But they were, they were steadfast, their voters said, keep fighting, and they stuck to their guns. And eventually the Chairman of the House Freedom Caucus ended up being the chief of staff to President Trump because President Trump recognized how principled these members are. 

Well, in my job I started seeing that why can’t we just export this idea down to the state capitals? And so we launched in December of 2021 we launched with the Georgia Freedom Caucus, and shortly after that we launched in Mississippi, then South Carolinand then Illinois of all places South Dakotarizona, Pennsylvania, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, and just recently Louisiana. So we have 11 of them all up and running. And our goal is hopefully to get up to all 50. I think places like Vermont and, you know, Hawaii and California are gonna take a little bit of time, but there are conservatives there and we want to help them. And so we’re excited to go wherever we were, we can and we’re ready to do it. 

And by the way, fun fact, the House Freedom Caucus was co-founded by Ron DeSantis. So this isn’t just something that President That’s right. Trump had some contentious moments, had con some contentious moments with Mark Meadows, who later became his chief of staff. Ron DeSantis actually founded this movement. And then I think we are all most familiar with House Freedom Caucus based on what they did in the current or right before the current speaker was elected. During those speaker those speaker elections where they said, listen, no, we want really based, really conservative conservatism in the Republican party. We don’t want establishment republicanism. And they held McCarthy’s feet to the fire until and didn’t cave until he agreed to all their stipulations. And it has resulted, I mean, not only was it great TV for all of us political nerds to watch it’s resulted in so far, 

It was so awesome. I remember I was actually watching it on my television as everyone else, but my, my two-year-old woke up in the middle of this. And so I put my AirPods in, I go upstairs to the room and have it on my phone as I’m like tending her. Cause I’m like, I can’t miss a second of this. I have to see everything that’s going on right now. And this is CSPAN like whoever would’ve thought CSPAN would be so exciting, but this kind of principled, unwavering participation, if you will, in these, in these political battles over these cultural issues. This is more needed at the States than ever before because this was a fact that I was very shocked to see the numbers, honestly, to see how many states that in 22 states in the United States, they have a Republican governor and Republican majorities in the state legislature, and yet we don’t see 22 states governing the way that Florida is being governed right now. We don’t see this very, very republican, very, very conservative leadership in these states. That’s what I wanna pivot back to. You explain this to me, what what is wrong with these states that have Republican majorities but aren’t governing like red states? 

You’re right, these 22 states, they should, they should be passing, you know, life at conception, no abortion. They should be passing constitutional carry. They should have low taxes. They should be absolute meccas are wonderful places for conservatives to raise families. And we don’t have any of that. And the reason why is because, well, first of all, the state capitals, believe it or not, are swamper than dc And I stand by that statement. I know it’s a bold statement, but it’s true. And the reason why is because the establishment in each of these 50 states have operated largely in the dark and with very little accountability that some very bad things have been happening. And here’s why. Think of there are three branches of this nasty iron triangle, the executive branch, which is the governor. And if you put DeSantis aside, all of the other ones are pretty lousy to varying degrees. 

 and so that governor think of their consultants, their lawyers, their advisors all well-funded. He ha they, whoever the governor is, they have a well-funded operation. Now, think of the wo bureaucracies that actually run state government. Those are all well funded by bureaucrats with fat pensions. They get their way whenever they want. Then imagine all the corporate special interest lobbyists. They definitely have deep pockets. So when you have those three things operating, you know, some bad things are gonna happen. Well, who’s fighting that? It’s conservative state lawmakers who are part-time, and that’s key, right? There is part-time the governor, the bureaucrats, the lobbyists, all full-time, 365 days outta the year. But state lawmakers only are part-time. They have full-time jobs. They have families to go back to. So when they gavel in in January, they’re likely out the door by April in most states. 

So who’s minding the store for the rest of the year? It’s the lobbyists, the bureaucrats and the, and the governor. I have one house Freedom Caucus member in Congress up here who said, Andy, that’s completely true. When I was a state lawmaker, I had a lobbyist whisper in my ear, I cannot wait for you to leave and gavel out of session because then we can go back to controlling things. That’s the what we’re confronted with. And so what we try to do with the State Freedom Caucus Network is take these part-time lawmakers and give them full-time support so that they can fight against the bureaucrats, the lobbyists, the establishment. Not just when they’re in session, but all year round. And so far it’s been making a huge change and it’s upsetting all of the right people. And the only thing I wanna do is make sure we can get into every single state and do it again and again and again. 

You know what I appreciate. I appreciate someone, and this is how I judge people in politics oftentimes, like even people on our own side, I judge them whether they can sit and have a conversation with me and criticize even our best politicians. And if they can’t, I’m not interested in their opinions because they’re just loyalists to a particular politician. And I don’t like that in politics. I like when we can sit here and say, listen, this is my favorite politician, but here’s what he or she is doing wrong as well as what they’re doing. Right? Because then you know that you’re supporting ’em for principle and not based on, not based on turning them into a celebrity here. So give me some examples of what you’re talking about here. When we talk about some of these states where the lawmakers are facing this kind of a state level administrative state, right? It’s somewhat of a technocracy at the state level. A little bit different than the federal level. But give me an an example of a state or legislature where you guys have come in with your state freedom caucus and actually been able to stop that bureaucracy from doing what they would’ve otherwise been able to do when the state lawmakers were home at their full-time jobs. 

Well, yes. one example that I give quite a bit is Wyoming. the Wyoming House has, forget this is ridiculous. They have 57 Republicans to five Democrats, like the Democrats almost don’t exist in Wyoming. But if you look at the actual voting records of Wyoming house members, it’s not 57 to five on every vote. It’s more like 36 liberals to 26 conservatives. So conservatives are losing time and time again in the Wyoming House because there are a lot of Democrats who realize they couldn’t get elected with a de after their name. So they just scribbled an aura after their name got elected in our voting like Democrats. And so that’s why this past session just a month or two ago, we could not pass school choice getting porn out of the school libraries. And we couldn’t stop transgender surgeries for minors. 

 the Wyoming Freedom Caucus was loud and we embarrassed the heck out of these so-called Republicans, and we made it very, very painful for them to win victory by stopping all this legislation. So even when we, when the Freedom Caucus loses, we make sure that it’s painful for the other side. Now we were able to get some really awesome victories. We stopped Hollywood subsidies in Wyoming that actually had the votes to pass, believe it or not. But we used procedural tactics that our lawmakers wouldn’t have had, had we not given them the tools from the State Freedom Caucus Network. We were also able to stop Medicaid expansion yet again because we were able to use procedures. So when you ask what victories we have, we actually believe in two things. One, actual victories, and then two, even when we lose, we wanna make it extremely painful for them to try and do it again and again and again. And over enough time, I think we’re gonna be able to change the conversation in Wyoming and elsewhere. 

Yeah. It’s like the strategy, not not just to cost political capital, which it should, but also to cost them money if they wanna defend this. Like, waste your money fighting this Yeah. So that you don’t have any money left to fight us when we come at you for a second and third time. I love this. I totally love this. Talk to me for a second though, about, I guess it’s Wyoming, specifically, these Republicans who are actually the definition of Republican and name only. Are they actually Democrats or are they just the brand of Republicanism that Liz Cheney is from that same state where she’s not really interested in social conservatism, she’s not really interested in fighting back against the reality of the political enemy that we face, which is obviously cultural Marxism. She’s just interested in, I don’t know, it seems like war mongering and unseating and trying to destroy Donald Trump. But who, who are these people? 

Well, it’s not just Wyoming. This is a very real problem. This horror show exists in the Redis states out there. We’re in South Carolina, Mississippi and then the mountain states like Idaho, Wyoming, Montana. And you know, this is a problem in every single one of these states, not just Wyoming. So what I tell people is, you have to stop, like, just stop. There’s, there’s something in your brain that it’s hard f for you to, to ignore, but you have to stop thinking of Republican Democrat when you’re looking at state representatives. And instead, you have to look at the establishment versus principled conservatives. And the first thing that your listeners are gonna say, well, how do I do that? It’s difficult, but we’re trying to educate people more and more. You have to look at scorecards. You have to look at voting records. 

You have to follow the right people on Twitter and groups like ours. You, we hope that you have a freedom caucus in your state. And if you do, then you automatically know who the good guys in the bad guys are. But in the states where you don’t have a Freedom Caucus, it can be hard, but we’re trying to make it easier and easier for people to learn. but to answer your question, it’s, it’s different in each state. I can tell you though, that when states are local, it’s all about going along with the special interests. When, like in South Carolina, South Carolina passed a hate crimes bill because the Democrats wanted it. Well, why did the Republicans want it? Well, a lot of them were Democrats, so they wanted the hate crimes bill. But what about the actual Republicans? Why did they want it? 

Well, Volkswagen wanted to come into town and set up a big factory with bunch of jobs, and they said they did not want to move into South Carolina without hate crimes legislation because they’re fully woke. They’ve bought on board the ESG agendand they said, we’re not coming into South Carolina without that. So the Chamber of Commerce Republicans cited with the Democrats and passed the Hate Crimes Bill, which was just an absolute insult to conservatives. And then just to pour, you know, lemon juice on the wound, they passed a $1.4 billion corporate welfare bill to Volkswagen to come into the state. And so in Wyoming and South Carolinall these red states, it’s the chamber business interests, special interests against conservatives, and they’ve got the money, and we are outgunned. And so what we’re trying to do at the network is just trying to level the playing field and to fight back. 

Yeah. Which is much needed. Because I think a lot of, and this is true for almost everyone watching the show, this is probably even true. I know a little bit about what’s going on at the state level in my own state or in the state where in the state where my family lives, just by nature of being around it and seeing the local news. But I think it’s true for all of us that we can name members of Congress at the federal level a lot more readily than we can name state legislature members, even ones who are extremely powerful, even ones who are who are so powerful that they are enacting legislation that is woke, that is ruling our lives in ways that we don’t want, that’s impacting our children in schools and in life and all of that. And the Left, I think, has done a good job building up their apparatus at the state level, knowing how to embed themselves in the governing apparatus at in-state capitals. And I’m not sure that conservatives realize that even though it’s more fun to watch what’s happening at the federal level because it’s this national drama, I don’t think conservatives always realize exactly how much power state legislatures have. 

Yeah, I mean, think about one congressional race anywhere that’s competitive. I mean, that’s gonna be, you know, well, even a non-competitive congressional race, let’s just say $2 million spent on that, when conservatives, big conservative donors give, you know, a million bucks to, to a race like that, imagine instead they gave that million dollars to dozens of house races in South Carolina, Wyoming, and Idaho. They would clean house, they would kick out so many liberal Republicans that it would just scare the pants off of the other ones that barely survived. And to your point, turning on the TV and watching Fox or o a n everything is about dc But ask yourself this, how did like the Inflation Reduction Act affect your family? I know it was bad. I know the Democrats supported it. I know it was horrible, but how did it actually impact my family? 

Now, contrast that with what is your state legislature doing right now that affects your child’s education? People know about that. They may not know who their state rep is. They may not know who their state senator is, but they definitely know what’s going on in their schools and they’re upset about it. And if they see a headline anywhere that says, Wyoming refuses to Pass School Choice, or Wyoming refuses to pass banning transgender surgeries for minors, or a bathroom bill, or something like that is visceral. And that is like, that’s when parents get angry. And that is why parents you know, started going after school board races. What I’m trying to educate the public is all by all means keep going after these school boards, but let’s focus on these state houses too, because what they’re doing is directly impacting your family, unlike what’s happening in Congress. And that’s not to say that what’s happening in Congress isn’t, we should just ignore it. There are definitely issues that we’ve gotta focus on in DC but there is so much that is impacting our families at the state level that we just have to focus on it now. 

Yeah, I think at the state level, it’s stuff that could impact your family next week, whereas at the federal le level, it’s something that’s gonna impact you over the course of your lifetime. It’s not necessarily less destructive, it’s equally as destructive, maybe even more so. But it’s definitely big picture versus the kitchen table economics that we always talk about. But these parents, I mean, is this, or anybody, it doesn’t have to be parents, just concerned citizens. Is the state freedom network something that people can get involved in? And if so, how? Cause I know people watching this show always want to get involved, always want to do something, and they’re just sometimes outta loss for like, okay, but what can I do? 

Yeah. Well, one, one, let me tell one anecdote. you, you’re right, that people don’t know who their state rep is or their state senator and our state reps, you know, people don’t know who they are. But in South Carolina, they have been so successful at upsetting the establishment that they tell me they go to the grocery store and people say, Hey, you’re, you’re the one of the Freedom Caucus guys, aren’t you? And they’re taken aback by that, and they’re like, whoa. Yeah. and so it gives them energy and it gives ’em power. So what I would say to your listeners is find out if you have a Freedom Caucus, go to our website at statefreedomcaucus.org and look at our map and see if you’re lucky enough to be in one of the 11 states that we’re in. And if we are, if you are in one of those 11 states, then sign up for our state freedom caucuses, or their Twitter feeds or Facebook pages. 

We, we list all those, or we can provide all of those for them and follow them and support them. If they’re not in one of those states they should ask why. and I will say that there are a lot of states right now that were, that are kind of in the queue ready to have a Freedom Caucus. And so we are helping those state lawmakers come along and go through the process, but find out why their state rep isn’t a Freedom Caucus member or why they haven’t set one up. and I bet the answer’s gonna be pretty demoralizing. It’s because they don’t have the listener’s interests at heart. And so just get educated, find out what’s going on in your state capital and tell 10 of your friends. 

And here’s a million dollar question, which I guess underpins your whole effort here. This triangle that you talk about, where it’s these special interests, these bureaucrats who essentially run state governments while part-time state lawmakers are working in their regular jobs at home with their families. Yeah. How do we dismantle that? What, where did that come from? What anchors it in place and how do we, how do we rid our states of that? 

So the, one of the things, so we tell our State Freedom Caucus members to do four things. We tell them to vote together, to plan together, defend each other, and be loud. And if you do all four of those as a freedom caucus, you’re cooking with gas on a gas stove. and so when it comes to the Iron Triangle of evil it’s all about the money. You gotta follow the money. And that means the budget battle every year is the most important battle, and it will horrify you to hear this. But in most states, the budgets pass unanimously, or with only a few dissenting votes. The South Carolina Freedom Caucus voted unanimously against the budget. And that was the most no votes in 50 years against the South Carolina budget. They weren’t able to stop it. They offered a ton of amendments and they embarrassed their colleagues on on all of these amendments, but they weren’t able to stop it. 

But they’re applying the pressure. the other thing that I would say to your question is a lot of the success that our state freedom caucuses are having is out of session. And this is a totally new thing, a totally new innovation that hasn’t been done before. But our state our South Carolina Freedom Caucus, they found out that the medical University of South Carolina was doing transgender services on minors. So the South Carolina Freedom Caucus put out a press statement and said, we know what you’re doing. We’re gonna investigate you. We’re gonna look at your funding, and if any law’s been broken we’re gonna bring charges against you. Within three months, that hospital shut down the transgender clinic and fired the lead doctor. There was no vote taken, there was no bill being considered. The South Carolina legislature was not in session. But because part-time lawmakers are now a full-time Freedom caucus, they can wage these fights. 

And the best part is that now we can take what they did in South Carolina and try to do it in Mississippi, Idaho, Wyoming, Illinois, all over the country. And that’s the beautiful thing is that we can learn from each other the, from all the different state freedom caucuses. So I’m, I’m just excited about what we’re doing and the best days are yet to come, but it’s, it’s truly amazing. But the opposition is a, is a formidable one. And so we’re gonna experience some losses. We just need to humiliate the bad guys when we do lose. 

Listen, your enthusiasm and your hope is really contagious. It’s really it’s really encouraging because I think a lot of us feel hopeless. A lot of us feel the weights of the losses, especially the cultural losses that we’ve suffered at the hands of the Leftist. And it seems what you’re describing is just classic corruption where people who have interests, you know, whether it be I can think of a bunch of examples here, but sometimes it’s the NCAA, for example, has an interest in, has an interest in the transgender athlete stuff. So they give money to lawmakers that they think they can control with money. These lawmakers then rely on money, not just the ncaa. That’s just an example. You know, sometimes it’s a chamber of commerce who has a, who has a a financial interest, whatever it might be. And those lawmakers, since they relied on the money from those corporations to get elected, they then are beholden to those corporations and they’re just squishes. They just vote the, that the corporations want them to vote cuz otherwise they lose their money. and yes, I think, I mean, I think you’re correct. We, I’ll be interested to wait and see this play out, but so far your strategy has been correct. If you have principled people who aren’t tied to money, they’re tied to policy and morality. That’s the only way to really stop, to really stop the money. So I love to see it. 

Yeah. and the thing is, is that when you watch members of Congress, like on TV and you see them debate you can tell that a lot of them are not that smart. and it’s their full-time job, like they should know, they should know a lot about policy and a lot of different arenas of the issues. But they’re full-time. There are a lot of state lawmakers who have no idea what the issues are in front of ’em, and they don’t have the time to read the stuff. They don’t have staff. and so who’s, who’s influencing their, their decisions lobbyists and the governor. And so there is no other opposition to any of these bills. There aren’t, you know, people knocking on their doors saying, you know what? I wish you would oppose the occupational licensing bill for home inspectors. 

There’s nobody knocking on their doors saying oppose that. But the home inspectors and the governor and the chamber are all knocking on their door telling them to pass it. So it’s no wonder that this stuff passes. But let me make one more point, cuz you, yeah. You mentioned something. There is corruption at the state level, and there is very real corruption, the kind that you see every once in a while where like the Illinois speaker goes to jail and his jail mate was like the speaker from before that because they all get indicted and go to jail. what I, what I’m trying to identify and educate the public about is what I call soft corruption, which is, it’s technically not illegal, but it’s highly unethical and it’s doing a disservice to the voters. And a couple of of examples like that is, in Alabama, they have this nasty culture of ducking votes. so there are 105 members in the Alabama House, I have seen bills pass 10 to zero, and 95 of them took a walk because they don’t want to upset leadership and they don’t wanna upset special interests. And the this behavior is so bad that the average Alabama House member like ducks 30% of their votes. And believe it or not, oh my gosh. And the believe it, believe it or not, in the Alabama Senate, there’s a state senator who hasn’t voted in three years. 

No way, stop it. 

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then in Texas, and I think this almost got national attention recently, but it needs even more attention, the Republicans are firmly in control of the Texas House. I think it’s like 86 to 64, but the speaker gives committee chairmanships to Democrats. Why? I mean, that’s like, that’s like Kevin McCarthy giving you know, the financial services committee chair to AOC like, it makes no sense that they should be doing it, but they do because nobody’s paying attention to the state capitals. And instead of it being R versus D, it’s the establishment versus principled conservatives. And so there is all kinds of soft corruption. I only gave you two examples. I could probably list 12 of them. and it just curls your hair to heal, hear this stuff. But it happens. And we’re just trying our best to, to stop it. 

And listen, I, when, when I was in college, actually, I served in government in my hometown in Ohio. I was a commissioner on the board of zoning appeals which is like a, it’s not an elected position, but it’s appointed by the mayor. And we had a contentious case. You’d think it was mostly like disputes over fences and sheds and most of it, that’s what it was. But we had one case where an abortionist, he was actually the guy who invented the partial birth abortion procedure, wanted to put a clinic in in our small town. And he was allowed to do that. There was no zoning laws against it, but the building that he wanted to put his clinic in was set really far back from the road. And he wanted a variance that would allow him to put a sign right on the road because a pro-life pregnancy center, crisis pregnancy center had placed themselves right across the street from him. 

So they named themselves something very similar to him. And it made a lot of the women who were otherwise seeking abortion go into the crisis pregnancy center, which was the intention, Uhhuh <affirmative>, and hopefully some abortions were avoided because of that. So he petitioned us for a variance, asking to put a sign right on the road that would tell people, you know, where his, where his business was. This was a most, this is a conservative town, right? A working class town. Most of us on the board were conservative and didn’t, we don’t have any obligation to give him a variance. It was against the law. He was asking for an exception. We were all gonna vote, we were all planning, or most of us were planning to vote no on this variance until we had lawyers come in and say, listen, this is gonna cost the city a lot of money because there’s a lot of money behind the abortionist and if you guys don’t vote, you are going to be responsible for wasting taxpayer money. 

And believe it or not, these people that were otherwise pro-life, otherwise conservative or ostensibly, so really considered changing their votes really actually came down to a tiebreak. It was evenly split on the board. I was the, I was the one that cast the tie breaking vote. And I remember just after this being like, wow, this is really a microcosm of at the federal level, but also at the state level. Cuz this was just a little small town in Ohio on a board of zoning appeals and something like this could happen. You know, this happens every day in your state capitol, Andrew, what you guys are doing to fight this with the State Freedom Caucus Network. I’m impressed. I’m really heartened to hear what you’re doing and I’m sure everyone watching and listening this show is too. can you remind people what the website is, where they can go to get involved? 

Yeah, it’s at state freedom caucus.org. I’m also on Twitter at Andy Roth, A-N-D-Y-R-O-T-H. That’s kind of where I do most of my venting. but if you wanna sign on for our newsletter you can go to our website. We also have Substack, just go and search for State Freedom Caucus Network. You can also find Substack for a lot of our individual freedom caucuses. So I would go there as well. 

All right, great. I follow you on Twitter. state freedom caucus network.org. That’s a pretty, that’s a pretty easy u r url. Everyone, everyone can just type that right in and remember that. Thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate it. Keep up the good work. 

Thanks, Liz. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. 

Of course. All right guys, make sure you check him out on Twitter and make sure you go to state freedom caucus network.org and get involved. This is an incredible movement. It’s fighting where the fights need to be fought at the state level. Even if you don’t know the names of your state representative, it’s time we all learned it’s time we took these fights back. We’re supposed to be a Federalist system, right? We’re supposed to be fighting the fights in our communities as local as possible. This is a way to do it. So state freedom caucus network.org. Thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. I’m Liz Wheeler. This is the Liz Wheeler Show.