I Debated an Andrew Tate Bro





In this episode, Liz Wheeler finds herself at the center of a heated debate after Mike Crispi releases a video fiercely criticizing her intelligence and conservative values in light of the Andrew Tate controversy. Crispi joins Liz to defend Andrew Tate and engage in a discussion about the contentious topics surrounding Tate’s influence.

Crispi provides his perspective on Tate’s views on pornography and materialism, offering counterarguments to address the concerns raised about Tate’s stance on these matters. Liz, on the other hand, remains firm in her position, challenging Crispi’s defense of Andrew Tate and seeking to explore the implications of such ideologies on society.

Amidst the debate, a significant question emerges—what constitutes true masculinity? Both Liz and Crispi delve into this critical aspect, attempting to shed light on their respective interpretations and understanding of what it means to be a truly masculine individual.

Liz and Crispi engage in a back-and-forth exchange of ideas, passionately presenting their viewpoints on Andrew Tate’s influence and the broader implications of his beliefs.

Show Transcript

This transcript was generated automatically and may contain typos, mistakes, and/or incomplete information.

I have a very interesting guest with me today, guys. You remember him? It’s Mike Crispi. We talked about the video he made about my video about Andrew Tate that went viral. My tweet about Andrew Tate. We did a little breakdown of his video. He asked me after I posted my response to this video if I wanted to civilly debate the topic. And I said, of course I do. That’s exactly what I wanna do. I love to do that. I invited him on the show. Of course, we’re all busy people, so we weren’t able to make it work for last week. But we are finally able to sit down and have this conversation. Mike Crispi you before we even get started, you host a show for Salem. You host a show on Rumble. You wanna tell people where they can find you? 

Yeah, absolutely. Rumble.com/lfatv every day streaming live at 12 Eastern and Salem News channel on the weekend, Salem Podcast Network. And Liz, thank you so much for having me. 

Of course. It’s great to have you here. So we’re gonna talk about Andrew Tate today, and I wanna remind everybody watching, especially some of the people that are like, are we still talking about this topic? Why this is so important. Andrew Tate was the most Googled person in the world, just I think a year or two ago. I mean, he’s still right up there. His video interview on Twitter with Tucker Carlson was viewed by something like a hundred million people, a huge percentage of internet consumers in the world. He is one of the, if not the biggest cultural influence on young men. And this is a huge culture issue. Of course, we should have this discussion. Mike was generous enough to want to have this debate. And Mike, I think what’s really interesting is you and I agree on like 95% of political stuff. We agree on Trump, we agree on electioneering. I took a look at your Twitter account after you posted this video, and I thought, oh yeah, this guy is pretty like-minded with me. So it makes it actually more interesting to me that we have differing viewpoints or differing takes on Andrew Tate, since we generally see the world in the same way other than this issue. So what I wanna do first is I wanna give you the floor. I wanna, I want you to make your case for Andrew Tate. Tell me your thoughts, 

Guys. I’ll tell you about Andrew Tate. I mean, first and foremost, if you look at anything Andrew Tate has posted in the last couple of years, 95.5% of what’s out there is positive. It’s all about things that young men should hear, but they’re not hearing it’s going to the gym. It’s not making excuses. It’s having a tough mindset. It’s being a provider, right, for the family, doing things the right way. So I don’t think anybody out there, Liz has said things like this in as direct terms as Andrew Tate. He’s an incredibly gifted communicator. And I think he’s used his talents as a communicator to talk to young men in a cutting edge quick way that grabs the attention in this TikTok economy that we’re in and get young people to be better versions of themselves. Is he perfect? No. Is anybody perfect? No, but the thing about Andrew Tate is that I believe he’s the one man that’s had more of a positive influence on young men than anybody I could think of in this generation. 

’cause he has a very unique set of skills. So I think that that should be celebrated. And I think that the reason why they demonize Andrew Tate is because they do not want his effect on young men to be felt. They want to dismiss him, similar to how they dismissed Donald Trump. They say, oh, all these things access Hollywood. Look, he’s getting sued by this crazy person. ’cause they said he raped them in a dressing room store. These crazy, outlandish stories. I think Donald Trump and entertained have very similar archetypes. I think they have very similar stories of being on a path and then using the gifts that they have from God for good. So definitely a big supporter of what Andrew Tate’s doing. He’s has had a positive effect on many people I know, including myself. And I think, again, the things that he preaches specifically being independently wealthy so you can escape the matrix, escape the system. 

I think that’s more important than anything. I mean, I know some people might call it materialism or what have you, but I think it’s the single most important message that he espouses is that the only way you’re gonna be able to break free, have your own opinion, not be subjected to experimental vaccines and mandates and stuff like that, is if you have your own independent wealth and life and the right mindset. So I think that’s what Andrew Tate preaches. I really think what he’s doing is for the greater good. And I think that the mainstream media has attacked him and demonized him on these unfounded allegations, which could easily be debunked. But this is what the mainstream media does. Just like with Donald Trump. Liz, I think they’re doing the same thing with Andrew Tate. 

Well, and I find this to be interesting because I agree with you on many of these points. I agree with you that Andrew Tate is very charismatic. That’s pretty obvious to anybody who watches him. I agree that some of what he’s preaching the independent thinking, like you and I both agree with that. Of course. I mean, I didn’t get the Covid jab. I assume you maybe didn’t either. Andrew Tate didn’t either. We are in the minority globally of people who, people who didn’t get it. So I can appreciate that no matter who that’s coming from. I think what I have observed about Andrew Tate is that he does serve a unique position in the world right now in that he is accurately diagnosing a serious cultural ill. You and I agree that there is a war against men that’s happening. It’s not something that’s new. This has been happening for decades, but it is more concentrated now than it was with the Me Too movement, with Believe All Women with trying to feminize men. 

I mean, it’s grotesque and it’s dangerous for our society. Andrew Tate recognizes that and articulates that and pushes back against that in a way. Again, I agree with you, there’s not a lot of people with his global fame who are doing the same thing. My observation about him then comes from what he offers instead. And if you’ll I’m interested in your thoughts on this. So if you’ll indulge me in explaining myself here, I think it’s very easy for our culture to identify something that’s wrong. Now, whether you have the courage to speak out against that wrong is a different question. But it’s easy to look at like transgender strippers and drag queen story hour and be like, that’s wrong. That’s evil. I don’t want that for my kid. What’s not as easy is to define what’s right, to define what’s good, to define what’s beautiful, to define essentially the antidote for the wrong that we are identifying. And this is my factual observation about Andrew Tate, is that he accurately diagnoses a very real, very critical in our culture. But what he prescribes as a solution is really a self-destructive path for young men. Materialism, pornography, exploitation of women, and worship of self. And I don’t want that for young men because I think it’s, I think it’s very harmful. But I’m interested in what you have to say about the idea of diagnosing a cultural ill accurately, but not prescribing what’s right. 

Well, yes, and that was a tweet that got this all started. So, I mean, the first thing, and I’ll just go in order here pornography, I mean, obviously the webcam business, which he was engaged in and then got out of, I think that, wait a second, 

Wait a second, wait a second. I don’t like interrupting, but I do want, I do wanna put this, wait a second. What is a webcam business? I don’t even like that phrase. Like what, what is that? 

Well, the, the webcam business in which he was doing, and I was gonna say, I mean it is pornographic in its nature, but nobody has denounced porn more than Andrew Tate. If you look at any of his videos in the last couple years. Now, he had that interview the other day with Candace Owens and he said, listen, this is my past. And we could have a conversation that it is immoral. I think he seeds that it was immoral. But just like so many people in pop culture and in modern culture and in politics, including Donald Trump, that we celebrate as heroes, they have personal growth. So I think Andrew Tate would say that things are immoral. And I don’t think anybody, Liz has been a bigger speaker against pornography than Andrew Tate. Any chance he gets. I saw him the other day. He was doing the interview with Adam 22, Aiden Ross and Lena the plug, he was speaking against it. 

He said, this is an uncomfortable conversation. It’s a godless conversation. I don’t watch porn. I never wanna watch porn. People who watch porn are weak and they’re selling their soul. So he’s said that now for a number of years consistently. And I think inherently that that’s a good thing. So, you know, the webcam business, you know, not good. But I think that he definitely has said, and he said it in Candace’s show the other day, it, you could have the conversation that it’s immoral, but it’s part of his path to get him to where he is now. And that is closer to God in his faith, obviously becoming a Muslim. The next one materialism again. I think that it’s okay. 

What’s the, lemme respond to this before we go through each one. Lemme respond to this before we go, because I don’t want things to get lost. These are all important points that you’re making. So I’m a believer in redemption. I’m a Christian, I’m a practicing Christian. I’ve, of course believe, you know, if you contrite and you regret what you do, you apologize. Like I’m all about forgiveness. Like, of course I think most conservatives are in general. I don’t hear that from Andrew Tate. I mean, in the Candace Owens interview, I also watched that he said, I’m not sorry for any of this. I don’t, he did. He said, I don’t regret this. I’m not gonna apologize. He said, I didn’t hurt anybody. What, with what I did. I don’t think it was all that bad. Those are direct quotes from him. So I would ask, I I wanna ask you, would you ever run a pornography business if you, if it profited you $600,000 a month? 

No, but I think that clearly what he’s saying there is that why what he did led no. Why 

Wouldn’t you led? 

Why he is now. I wouldn’t. I just, I just wouldn’t do it. I’m in the media, I’m in podcasting. That was his life path. Everyone has different life paths to get them to wear. 

But why wouldn’t you? This is really important. It’s not a trick question, it’s not a trick question. I want you to make your point. But wouldn’t 

You’s not interested in, it’s not a good thing. But not everybody who is carrying out the good in today’s society is a perfect person. Andrew Tate, just like so many other people, just like Donald Trump, they’re an imperfect vessel that goes on to do something very consequential and good for humanity. You know, Donald Trump acts access Hollywood tape. You’re a big supporter of Donald Trump. Liz, you know, did you condemn Donald Trump? Were you calling on him to drop outta the race after the Access Hollywood tape or any of these other crazy allegations against him? Obviously Donald Trump wasn’t a perfect guy, but look what he’s done for this country. Look at all the substantive goodies done. So I look at Andrew Tate the same way I think that people grow. And again, I grew up in a very nice household, good family, all that. Andrew Tate didn’t have those luxuries. He grew up hard. 

He grew up from nothing. And look what he became. So I think that, again, I had different circumstances of how I was brought up, but Andrew Tate, just like Donald Trump, they have a path to get to where they are. And that’s what shapes them as a person and ultimately gives the positive that they’re making on society. So I think he learns from that. I think that’s why he’s able to preach it the way that he preaches it. So, no, I wouldn’t do it. But his story, I think it’s all shaped him for the better of what he’s doing now as a consequential figure on young men. 

And this is the material point. This is why I asked the question. Again, I’m not trying to do some gotcha question. I wanna sit here and have this conversation with you. I want you to share your full thoughts. I want you to hear mine. The reason I ask this is because the reason you wouldn’t run a pornography business is the same reason that I wouldn’t run a pornography business, because we understand that it’s fundamentally immoral. It’s wrong and it’s destructive. It’s harmful to people. It’s harmful for young men who watch pornography. It’s harmful for the women who are exploited by pornography. We wouldn’t do it because we know that it’s immoral. And this is, this is actually what I think is the broader problem with the Republican party right now, is we’ve been, we’ve fallen prey to so much almost libertarian mindset that we’ve neglected to define right and wrong. 

And therefore we’re like, well, government just shouldn’t get involved, or we shouldn’t comment on society’s any of society’s ills, as long as someone has a legal right to do it. So there’s actually, what’s interesting is there’s been a lot of talk about Andrew Tate’s legal case and my commentary, and I’ve never commented on Andrew Tate’s legal case at all. Not once, I might in the future, but I’ve only been making the moral case about the impact that he has on young men. Yeah. And his own words and actions show, I’ll, I’ll let you respond in just a second. Yeah. His own words and actions show that he’s still living this type of lifestyle. I mean, he doesn’t condemn porn. He literally has a very recent quote that says, I’m not like other conservatives where I condemn it. I don’t think people should be addicted to it. I think that it creates men who are docile, but he’s not, he’s not condemning it. And I don’t think, I mean, you would agree, you wouldn’t recommend that a young man follow a role model. And that if that role model is someone who’s spent his, in his career, he’s built his wealth propagating this really bad thing. Pornography 

Li Liz, I just disagree with you. I think that Andrew Tate, again, if you listen to all’s recent stuff in the last two years, he denounces porn. He says it’s what weak men does. Andrew Tate is all about empowering young men. And he says, I’ve watched porn maybe once or zero times in my life. It’s terrible. It’s not gonna make you the greatest man. You shouldn’t waste your time on it. And then he said, during Tucker, if you’re watching porn, that means you need to look in the mirror and you have something wrong with you. He said that as plain as day in the Tucker Carlson interview. So I would just respectfully disagree that I think he has renounced pornography and maybe the effects that he saw, what it did to people in the webcam business, maybe now that allows him to diagnose it better than anybody. That is not gonna make a strong man, a better man and a functional member of society if they fall down that path. So in the Tucker interview, he definitely said that that if somebody’s watching porn, it means that they have bigger problems, and that’s a telltale sign. So I do think that that is pretty good. And again, I think his perspective shapes why he’s able to say that. So I know that’s one of them. I know there’s several more in this in this tweet here. 

Yeah. And this is, this is the last, this is the last thing. We can move on to some of these other accusations. But I want, when it comes to the pornography, the thing that stuck out at me during the Candace Owens interview is when he said, I didn’t hurt anybody. I don’t think what I did was that bad. And you and I both know the effects of pornography. I mean, it destroys marriages. It destroys the nuclear family. It destroys men’s sexual drive. It destroys how men view women. It makes them more prone to violence. Like thi this is a fundamentally harmful thing. And I, I just challenge young men who really are drawn to Andrew Tate in a sense, for a valid reason, because he’s identifying a valid grievance that society is inflicting on young men. I challenge them to look at what Andrew Tate is prescribing here. 

The other interesting thing from the Candace Owens interview is he, he gave an excuse essentially for why he did this. He’s like, oh, I came from a background of hard knocks. You know, I just did what I had to do. And I’m interested in your take on this because I think that that is just straight up moral relativism. That’s basically saying for different people, morals are somehow fungible. That if you come from a, an economically poor background, it justifies doing something wrong in order to get ahead. Don’t you think that A, that’s moral relativism. And b, that’s a repudiation of the American dream, which says that even if you come from a bad background, you have the opportunity to succeed without hurting other people or cheating. 

Yeah. But Liz, I mean, you know this, there’s so many people in our society who are celebrated, who did bad things because they came from bad backgrounds. And again, those hard experiences shaped them to be the person they are today. I’ll give you an example. Again, we can go, not hard background, but just somebody who’s come full circle to do good. Donald Trump used to be pro-choice. And then he told the story on the debate stage that he had experienced these things being in the New York City social circles of people who were getting abortions. And as he grew as a man, he heard about these situations. He saw a kid who was born who didn’t get aborted, and that changed his perspective. So again, I think that people going through certain things, I think that that allows them to form a perspective to get them to where they are. 

So again, in the last number of years, and that was my original counterpoint to you, is that Andrew Tate has been very against it. And I think that a tough background. So many people in our society have been celebrated from coming from a background changing, changing their perspective, evolving on the issue, and everybody gets celebrated for it. Look how far they’ve come, look how they’ve developed. Look how they’re using their strife or maybe their hardship. An imperfect vessel to preach something godly and good. And that’s what Andrew Tate does. I mean, he does preach those things. And again, 95% of the videos that I see are all about those things. It’s all about morality, faith, not watching pornography. And again, I think just like Trump, just like a lot of these other people that we celebrate as conservatives who had tough backgrounds, their flawed perspective in the past allows them to be the best narrators on why going forward, we need to reject these things. So that’s again, why I stand by him on that. 

Well, listen, I understand the redemption argument that you’re making. I I think I like a lot, probably you as well, like a lot of conservatives who are pro-life. When Donald Trump said that he became pro-life, we were like, really? Are you just saying that to us? Because you want the Republican nomination? And then he was, he was sort of forced to tell this personal conversion story, which like I said, I’m a practicing Christian. I’m open to personal conversion stories, redemption stories. I don’t see that the same way in Andrew Tate because of his words, because he had not a challenge. You actually to listen to what he says, make sure that you’re not falling for rhetorical slights. He’s not condemning pornography the way that he should. If he understands what a degradation it is to society versus just a bad habit or some mistake he made in his past. 

I mean, it, it’s, it’s very different. But the core of all of this, and this is the conversation that I really wanna have with you. The core of all of this, I think, and the reason so many conservatives and red pilled young people do find Tate attractive is because the right has failed to retain or conserve, if you will, not to make a bad pun about conservatives conserve the definition of what is true masculinity. We’ve allowed the left to attack it and war it and feminize it and twist it and demonize it and all of that. And we haven’t fought for what, what is it, what is the definition of real masculinity? And so these young men who are being attacked by our culture are very vulnerable to just hearing the strong man argument that, oh, if I’m strong enough that someone fears me, that’s the same as respect. If I’m rich enough that I can do what I want, I can avoid the system. And instead we’ve lost sight of, okay, well let’s, let’s define what masculinity is. So I I’d like to ask you what your thoughts, what is masculinity? 

Well, I would say that the masculinity that Andrew Tate espouses I think generally is the exact thing that men need to hear. I couldn’t think any way that you would deviate from what he preaches to people in the last three years, consistently, ever since I started watching him, it was, do not make excuses. A man should suffer. A man shouldn’t make excuses. A man should make enough money so they could be independent not to be having to go along with what the deep state, with what the matrix tells them to do. We all know that’s true. We can all agree on that. And then additionally, one step further, be a provider for your family. How many deadbeats out there are there Liz that have been created by this system? So be a provider, make money, have a job that you have pride in. Work hard, go to the gym, have a healthy body. 

’cause when you have a healthy body, you have a healthier mind and you’re harder to control. He is the perfect antidote and gives the perfect pushback, prescriptively to all the things that these new world order people wanna push along on. Men, I haven’t heard anybody else do it. So when it comes to being a man, what is masculinity? Not making excuses. Waking up, waking up every day and doing things that are hard suffering because you need to, ’cause it’s your duty as a man, providing for your family, protecting your woman. Entertain said so many times, listen, here’s the deal, it’s traditional gender roles. It’s biblical is we’re both Christians. He says, you know, as a, as a woman, you have these roles. I have these roles and I would die for my woman. I would take a bullet. If somebody invaded our house, I would defend the home to the deaf. 

And that’s my role as a man. And a woman would do her roles as a woman. So I think he’s actually preaching these things that are like biblically accurate when it comes to a man’s role, providing for their family, working hard, being strong. And most importantly, and this is what I think is the most important thing, and why I am a big fan, not being easy to control you. And I, again, we agree, you said this at the beginning, we agree on 95% of the stuff. We understand that they’re trying to push things on our society that are totally, totally absurd. They’re trying to push vaccine passports. They’re trying to restrict our movements. They’re trying to make us take experimental jams. They’re messing with the food supply and all these things. They don’t want us working out. They want us to live in little pods and be unhealthy fat losers. 

That’s what they want. Entertainment is the perfect pushback on that. And I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying that. If you make money and you’re successful, you can have nice cars and have boats and houses. And what’s wrong with that? We always celebrate that as success in America. Conservatives always look at that and say, wow, that’s aspirational. I wanna be like that. And liberals candidly say, oh, I should take something like that. We need to find a way to tax that. So I think it’s a good thing. I think it’s a role model. I think when you have a lot of nice things, I don’t think it’s like this dark pit of materialism. I think it’s something to aspire to. So I think that the guy has a ironclad mind. He works very hard, he trains very hard, and he’s done things that I think as men, young men out there they can aspire to be. And I do believe that that redemption story and the way that he’s grown is a perfect path for young men to follow in the footsteps of, 

Well, let me ask you this. So the things that you named working out, no excuses, not being a fat loser. These are all good things. Of course this used to be obvious in our society, but everything that you just named including those things, those are habits of people. Those are, those are things that you do. Those are actions. That’s not a purpose, right? Your purpose is not to go to the gym and lift weights, right? We didn’t even have gyms without, and we didn’t even have dead weights and stuff 150 years ago. Like the purpose of mankind or the male human person is not to work out what is. And I know that this is really existential, this is really philosophical. And I think that this is where some of the disagreement comes from. because if you are taking your argument to the logical conclusion, then it would follow that a man without wealth, a poor man, you might call him, couldn’t be a true man. Because if a true man is only a true man, if he’s able to use his status and his wealth to avoid the system, I mean, we conservatives used to call that elitism. I understand the advantage of that, of course we saw it during Covid. But do you believe that you can only be a true man if you are extremely wealthy? That poor men are not real men? 

I think that’s a common conflation with Andrew Tate’s perspective and philosophy. They say, well, he’s saying that you have to be uberly rich. Again, I’ve listened to many Andrew Tate podcasts and this question gets asked sometimes it’s like, well, I’m working and I’m doing this. You know, does that not make me a true man? And, and they say something that I think the Tate brothers that is very profound. It’s the perspective of providing and providing for your family. So you could be a really rich man making millions of dollars like Andrew Tate every year, or you could be a man working class working for your family. It’s the perspective, and it is the mindset of getting up every day and always looking to better your life and better your family’s life. And again, what is a man, I think a man’s job in society? I think a man’s role. 

What is the purpose of man? A man’s purpose is to provide for and care for their family. And that’s what we’ve been doing for hundreds of years as a society. And I think as it’s getting harder, again, Andrew Tate diagnosed with the fact that the dollar’s becoming worth less, that they want you in a wage slave job working the world is changing, right? And it’s changing in a way where Andrew Tate is preaching this perspective of doing as well as you can. So you can always be in the best position possible. And obviously a hundred percent of men isn’t going to listen to what anybody says. Right? You know, we have a presidential election. It’s never like 70 30 or 80 90 or to 10. It’s always like 50 50. So Andrew Tate is preaching the message to men who will listen. Listen, if you do the best that you can, you’ll be ahead of 95% of other men. 

He says that almost verbatim. If you are doing these things and leveling up and always focusing on providing and going through the hardships and not making excuses for yourself, rejecting this idea of depression and that you don’t feel good. And then he says, well, if you’re in an African village and you’re getting bombed in the Civil War any day, every day, are you gonna be depressed? The answer’s obviously no. Nobody else talks like that. Andrew Tate says that. So his message is that if you’re the, a believer in that, you’ll be better off than 95% of these NPCs. These people just wake up, they consume the porn, they consume the, the garbage entertainment on tv. They eat junk food. He knows that Not everybody’s going to subscribe to that, but the men who do subscribe to that will be in an infinitely better position than the other men when it comes to finding a woman, having a family, and being in the best position so they can live a comfortable life. He has said before that it doesn’t mean you have to be uberly rich like me, but doing the best you can to always be striving to level up your position. I think as a man, you’re always working to achieve and build. That’s in the ethos of man. And I think that’s what Andrew Tate is saying. 

I can see that you feel passionately about the motivational speaker aspect of what he’s saying. I appreciate that. I don’t feel any disrespect to the young men who have listened to Andrew Tate. Like I said, I fundamentally disagree with Tate’s premises. And by the way, I say this in the gentlest, most respectful way, pro possible. This is actually what Andrew Tate said about wealth. He said, A real man is ultra rich and provides his woman with the most expensive things money can buy. So what you just described a moment ago about a work ethic being what Andrew Tate really meant is not the words that Andrew Tate actually spoke. So again, I challenge everyone, not just you Mike, but everyone, to listen to Andrew Tate’s words, what he’s saying and not what you want him to say. Not what you wish he would say. Listen to what he is actually saying because this is, I mean, you said you were Christian before, correct? Are you Christian? Yes. 


Okay, so we’re on the same page on this. I know not everyone who listens to Andrew Tate is Christian. He has a global audience here. But one of the things that has become clear to me watching the culture wars, this is even not, this is not exclusive to Andrew Tate. One of the things that’s become clear to me is that our country, the United States of America, is not going to survive if we descend into the chaos of being unable to even define the word woman, right? We have to have some baseline agreement on objective truth. And what is objective truth? Objective truth is reality. And reality reflects our creator. We, we, we don’t, we don’t have a secular society. You and I both agree on this. This is true. We don’t have a secular structure of government. We’re not a theocracy. But our founding documents and the framing of our constitution was built on natural law. 

Natural law is not animalistic instinct. Natural law is the reason that is inherent inside of every man and woman that was given to us by the one who created us. I know people are gonna say, oh, this is preachy, this is religious. But you don’t have to be a religious person to acknowledge that this is how our government and our culture was formed into the most powerful nation on earth. And I think when it comes to the definition of right, that I mentioned at the beginning of the show, we can easily identify wrong. But what do we offer as the, as the alternative? How do we define right? We can’t do that without looking to, especially you and I as Christians. We can’t look, we can’t do that without looking to what is the biblical, if you will, or God-given purpose of a man. And I’d love to hear your thoughts on this because this is where I think Andrew Tate really deviates from what biblical men are called to do. 

Well, I would just then, and again, like so I believe that, you know, biblical man and being a strong man, I think that the things that I described it in my last response, I think those are the things that makes a man. I think culturally speaking, you know, Andrew Tate does talk about God and making God proud. He says that God frowns upon you when you don’t work. ’cause he’s given you all these things and you need to take the blessings that you have. Always says this is somebody says, he always says, you could have died, or sorry, you could have had your legs chopped off in a car crash at the age of six. You could have had some eye eating disease, you could be blind, you could have all these things, but you’re given these things by God and it’s your duty as a man to make the most of it and make him proud. 

So again, I think that his argument in the last couple of years, again, that tweet, I dunno exactly when that tweet was, but I think his argument, especially in the last two years, especially with his story becoming a Muslim converting, he talks about being an atheist in the past and then saying, if there is evil, there must be God. So therefore I am religious now. I think that’s a good story. That’s a good message. And he always talks about honoring God. So Liz, I get, I mean, what would your, so if it’s not the things that I’m saying on my last argument, what do you think? I was legitimately curious and it’s not, you know, I’m not like, like trying to flip the tables, but like, what would you say then a man, 

No, ask 

Whatever he want should be for and esp. If it’s not the things that I am saying that Andrew Tate, I believe projects onto men, you know, from ages 16 to 30, what do you, what would you say it’s, 

Yeah, this, and this is where it gets like a little philosophical. And I think that this is one of the fun things about these longer form conversations is we can dive into this. So I’m gonna read a list of things and if you find, if you find a point that you disagree with or you wanna discuss, feel free to to interject here because this is a great discussion. So again, I know you don’t have to be Christian to hold this worldview or understand that our society’s built on this worldview. So I don’t wanna turn off people who are not Christians in this conversation, but I think if you bear with us in this debate, you’ll see the point that I’m making resounds as true regardless of your personal religious beliefs. So we open the Bible to the book of Genesis, Genesis two. man is told that his role in the garden is to till and to keep the Hebrew definition of the word till is actually translated as to do a work in service, to do a work of service. The word to keep is translated. The Hebrew word is really to protect and defend. So right there you have a baseline of what a man is called to do. He’s called to do work in service and to protect and defend. That’s pretty clear. I think we’re both in agreement on that. And 

I would say to fast 

Forward a little bit, 

Yeah, that’s all I would say. I think that Andrew Tate does. I think those are things that Andrew Tate does. I think that Andrew Tate would say that you have to work and you have to serve, you have to serve your family and you have to work hard despite the excuses. I mean, is there a man, Liz, that you would say has better embodied these things? Like is there an individual, and again, both Christians, is there an individual that has embodied these things in the last year to two years on such a large platform? my thing is, if not Andrew Tate then who has done that? That’s I guess my question that I was wondering when you were making these points. Like who does Liz think as a man doing it in the way that men should follow, if not what Andrew Tate is doing, 

Which is act, which is a great, it’s a great question because this is one of the reasons I’ve spoken out against Andrew Tate after Tucker gave him that enormous platform that kind of spilled him over into American conservative politics as well is because there’s obviously not a conservative alternative to the level of fame as Andrew Tate I think that’s a shame. I don’t think young men should put role models on a pedestal and treat them as celebrities. I don’t think that’s healthy because we are, as you said before, we are fallen. Mankind has fallen, all people are sinners. So idolizing any one person is just going to bring you dismay and disappointment. But I think that’s why we have to bring it back to using ideas as role models and not just making people celebrities, which I know it’s not as juicy, it’s not as interesting. 

But let me continue on this. So we agree on this, description in Genesis that a man’s role is to work in service and to protect and defend. But here’s where I think Andrew Tate deviates a little bit from it. And here’s where I would here’s how I would continue to define masculinity. So the question is, well, what are you protecting? What are you defending? Are you defending land? Are you defending your city in a battle? Are you defending? What are you defending? And we look to the Book of Job, God tells Job to gird your loins like a man, which I find this quite funny. The actual literal translation of gird your loins is pull up your pants. I dunno why I find that funny, but it is quite funny. But it essentially means to summon your inner strength, prepare for battle. 

And in Ephesians it tells us that the battle isn’t just a physical battle to defend a castle or land. It’s to fight against sin and death. Be strong in the Lord, put on the armor of God the breast plate of righteousness so that you take the helmet of salvation, the sword of spirit, which is the word of God. And it’s not justified against sin and death. It’s to fight against sin and death on behalf of your spouse, on behalf of your wife. Ephesians says, sanctify your wife and make her holy. So to me, this is actually the roots of what masculinity is. Men are called to be warriors, to be fighters, to lay down their life, to serve and protect, in order to do everything they can on earth to fight these forces of evil, to get their wives and their children to heaven. And I’m interested to hear your take on this because it’s drawn. So 

That means, that means that means that you’re a big fan of Andrew Tate because Andrew Tate’s the one guy out there, who says that he would lay his life down if somebody invaded his house. ’cause it’s dude, it’s his duty to protect a woman and a child, right? Be the strongest version of self. So he can’t pushed, wait a second, 

Pushed around. Wait second, wait a second, wait 

A second. And make the most money possible. So again, not a perfect vessel, but in reality, Liz, he’s preaching the things that you’re saying. Again, it’s imperfect. 

Wait a second, Mike, wait a second. I wanna respond to that first sentence. 

Yes. We’re not just talking about being armed and exercising your Second Amendment rights when an intruder comes in your house. I think we’re all fully prepared for for that scenario. No, no, we’re talking about fighting against sin. So Andrew Tate has openly said, for example, that in his personal life, he has many children with multiple women according to biblical principles. Is he protecting those women from sin and death? That comes from sin? No, he’s doing the opposite. During his webcam business, was he protecting those women from sin, from sexual sin, from exploitation? No, he was doing the opposite. I would argue that Andrew Tate abused his position as a man by simply playing a physically strong man role while neglecting the spiritual duty that cannot be divorced from being a man. If you disagree with this, tell me, because it’s based on our shared Christian faith. 

Well, I would, I would say that again, like those are things that if he was doing now and he was doing this business and he was doing these things, but again, nobody talks more about putting down the pornography and protecting a family like Andrew Tate. So yes, he might have children with different women and all of that, but he’s a provider, he’s a protector of them. And I do believe that right now and into the future, the things that he preaches, nobody else is doing it. Somebody has to do it. God books puts imperfect vessels to carry these things out. No other man is doing it. Somebody has to step up and do it. And again, is it perfect? Is it cookie cutter? I mean, not nothing is cookie cutter. So man is flawed. Andrew Tate is flawed, but Andrew Tate has been the best role model for it to be the closest we can, to be the best type of men possible. 

And he does say, you know, I live my life this way, but I encourage good relationships and stuff like that. And families, he talks about these things. So again, I think people, you know, they take these little clippets of him on the internet. they take these things that he says he does use sarcasm, and that was part of his stick early on. But I think if you listen to him long form, if anybody listens to him long form in his two three hour podcast, he will get into these things. And again, I think Liz, that, you know, I know we disagree on this, but I think that his message is as close to anybody we’ve seen. And that’s why we shouldn’t reject him because the public is saying, oh, this woman in Florida who has this ridiculous case against him, which is so easily debunk, she makes these claims, oh, she was held against her will and then she’s in the south of France next week on yachts and at the at the beach. I think that totally points to the fact that they’re out to get him, just like they’re out to get Trump, just like they’re out to get any of these people who speak truth to power. You got Romanian. Wait a second, coming down 

Second. I don’t wanna talk in hypotheticals. I’m not, they we’re just talking about my moral, my moral case against Andrew Tate. Right? I’m not talking about his legal case. I’m not talking about the mainstream media, not wanting people to work out or saying it’s white supremacist or whatever CNN has told us lately. I’m talking about purely the moral case that I’m making against Andrew Tate. And this is my edgiest opinion of all. Mike, I don’t think that you disagree with me. I think that all the points that I made, I think you agree, you are a Christian. You know that being a man is not a purely economic pursuit. We are not just made for this earth. It is not the most successful people materially that has no bearing whatsoever on salvation or the salvation of our loved ones. That is what the true purpose of a man is. I know our culture has devolved seriously into secularism where it is a rat race for economics. But I don’t think that you actually disagree with my take on those things. I think it is simply easy to fall prey to the a charismatic person who is diagnosing a problem, diagnosing a problem correctly. But if you actually listen to what Andrew Tate says, he has not disavowed this stuff. He’s simply excused it because he said he came from a background that apparently makes immorality. Okay, we are out of time, but you may have the final word. 

Liz, I appreciate you having me on to have this discussion. I think if you listen to a couple hours of Andrew taste stuff, I think you’ll like him more than you think you know? And I also think that if somebody can say something to do good, and they’re a net positive against what they’re pushing on us with the Marxism and the socialism and they’re pushing against that and they’re a megaphone for it, I think that’s a good thing. I really appreciate you having me on to have the discussion though, Liz. Seriously, thank you. 

Thanks, Mike, I appreciate it. Thanks for being here. 

All right. 

Thank you for watching today. Thank you for listening. I’m Liz Wheeler. This is the Liz Wheeler Show. 

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